Kelley Jones is thoroughly interviewed!

I recently spoke to one of the world's greatest comic artists. He is perhaps best known to many for illustrating Batman. We talked about his dramatic art style and so much more. I also asked if the kind man could add something of himself into our long and career spanning interview. Just like his art, Kelley Jones did not disappoint. I asked for a tiny bit of trivia, and he supplied me with plenty. It all turned out to be very informative. So here we go with five things the average comic fan may not know about this remarkable artist. They are all direct quotes...

One: "I love to cook, and I am a huge acolyte of Jacques Pepin. My signature dish is Beef Burgundy with Parmesan roasted potatoes, or a Chicken Jambalaya over Zatarain rice.

Two: "I like any movie by Stanley Kubrick or Terence Fisher I can watch on a loop. I also love the 1964 Jonny Quest and the Marvel '66 cartoons..."

Three: "I love dogs, but I have nine cats and they do their will. I love building dry stack stone walls and growing tomatoes and herbs. I have all the Arkham House book publications and worship M.R. James and Manley Wade Wellman. I listen to Gustave Holst's the Planets and Ralph Vaughn Williams Pastoral Symphony EVERY day."

Four: I read the Lord of the Rings and Dune once a year. I prefer the Munsters over the Addams family. Boris Karloff's Thriller is my favourite TV show. True Detective Season One is the best Lovecraftian show or movie ever. Stan Lee and Jack Kirby and Steve Ditto made me a fan of comics, and Bernie Wrightson and Len Weir made me want to make comics.

Five: I don't organize my DVDs. I listen to Morricones 'Ecstasy of Gold' on repeat when on long car trips. I still own all the comics I bought as a little kid and CBS Radio Mystery Theater is what I listen to at night when I go to bed."

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Paul: Could I simply begin at the very start sir please. How did your relationship with comics actually begin? What were the very first comics you might have bought or have been given, and what age might you have been?

Kelley: My first experience with comics was when I was 10 years old or so, and my older brother brought home a stack from school. They were used as reading material for when students finished their assignments early. The school year came to a close and he brought them home. I was transfixed with them. I remember distinctly being blown away with Fantastic Four #83 guest starring the Inhumans. My young brain just spun. The work of Jack Kirby made me a fan of comics, but issue #2 of Swamp Thing made me want to make comics. A friend of my fathers came over and dumped a chest full of comics and gave them to me as he didn't want them to "Rot my kid's brain" and my dad thankfully thought it would be "okay" to rot mine!

Paul: Your mind seems okay I'd say.

Kelley: Marvel Feature #5 starring Ant-Man and the Incredible Hulk #155 were the first comic books I bought with my own money and I simply loved Herb Tripe's art. As by coincidence he drew both those books. All these events happened at the magical age of 10 when literally anything could happen. That summer was great and I drew and read and pretended to be these characters. I was beyond hooked. Since none of my friends cared about this stuff I was alone with this great secret coolness (although they all thought it was pretty silly.)

Paul: This may also seem silly in that case. Did comics make you an artist? Or did you have a very early talent for art before comics?

Kelley: I was drawing before I was walking! I drew all the time. When I found comics it gave that talent a direction. I always drew monsters and dinosaurs and spaceships and all manner of 'boy' related interests then.

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Paul: I am interested to ask. Some artists are purely self taught and some have a formal education in such things as life drawing and anatomy etc. I am curious to know, which route did you take?

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Kelley: I am pretty much if not entirely self taught. I took a few courses in art but found them remarkably dull and uninspiring. To be fair I had no intention of making drawing into some kind of a living then. I really learned far more on how to draw from taking classes on Cinema appreciation than in any art classes, which I usually failed at anyway! Ideas and how to find them are the real keys to art.

Paul: Could you describe perhaps any early examples of what you mean?

Kelley: Most artists look probably too much at learning technique to develop a style, and that's fine. I found that too many rules got in the way of making what was in my head and getting it onto the paper! My ideas didn't really conform to the strict adherence to rules. I knew them but they held me back. Some rules you must conform to, like size of a page and the limits of printing and so forth, but outside of that I let the ideas call the tune as it were as I drew.

Paul: Could you talk about your time at Marvel Comics a little?

 

Kelley: I spent six years at Marvel learning and trying to let my real self out. Marvel didn’t want me to ink myself (which is ironic as I was hired as an inker!) Artist that I looked up to were Kirby and Ditko of course, but also Steranko and Adams. I'd add Wrightson, Starlin and Rogers and Byrne in the second wave. I loved Russell and Corbin too. But I was also I was a film fan. Maybe even more so with my love of Kubrick and Lean. Terence Fisher and Jacques Tournier as well as Freddie Francis. Mario Bava is a God as is Leone. God. A lot of how I think storytelling is in my love of Bava and Kubrick.

 

Paul: Before your first published work, did you have many "knockbacks" or rejections letters. For most creators it is a rite of passage.

 

Kelley: I received a rejection notice from DC written by Ernie Colon on the same day I received a ‘You’re Hired’ note by Ralph Macchio from Marvel to ink The Micronauts drawn by Butch Guice. All this on a Halloween weekend!

 

Paul: Who says that isn't a great weekend then? So my next question is a bit obvious. What was your very, very first published work?  Importantly apart from yourself who might you have to thank for that very first opportunity?

 

Kelley: I inked the first 5 pages of Defenders 116 over Don Perlin. Al Milgrom gave me that shot and Macchio and Guice really liked it. The big thank you is to Butch Guice who wanted me to work with him and held my hand on that first Micronauts, issue 54.

Paul: Historically did you ever have any preference between Marvel or DC Characters?

Kelley: Oh it was Marvel all the way back then. I loved Kirby and Ditko and Heck. As a boy I lived and breathed them.

Paul: Could you be any more precise please about the Marvel characters you appreciated at the time?

Kelley: The Fantastic Four, Spider-Man, Captain Marvel, Warlock and anything by John Byrne (and Thor.)

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Paul: Can you tell me about working upon the Deadman comic for DC comics please?

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Kelley: Deadman was a signature moment not only in my career but in my life. I was at a crossroads in regards to my professional and personal life. They both were not going well. I was doing okay at Marvel as far as getting work went, but the work wasn't what I wanted to do, and I was refused the kind of work I felt was in my heart.

Kelley: The world I was in was very grey and one where I just wasn't understood. On a strange day, a very strange day, when everything kinda collapsed I was called out of the blue by DC. The editor Barbara Kesel asked if I would draw an eight part eight page per episode story for Action Comics Weekly featuring Deadman. I jumped at it. 

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Kelley: From the start of the assignment my emotions just filled it with all the life I wanted in my art. I deviated from the Neal Adams version as I knew his shadow was long and impossible to replicate. It didn't fit with what I felt inside anyway. I simply drew literally. A dead man. The idea exhilarated me and the stories started drawing themselves. I didn't know if DC would allow for such freedom. Yet I figured I had now a choice but only to follow my heart on this because of the real joy I felt that was coming out onto the page.

Kelley: When I finally was contacted from DC I was expecting to be fired, but that wasn't what happened. I was told what the next series of deadlines were and that was it. When I heard from Barbara the following week I couldn't understand it and I asked what she thought of my work. In an abrupt and wonderful way she said that though my style wasn't her cup of tea she wanted me to go further with what I was pushing. Apparently it was interesting and getting attention in the office. 

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Kelley: The Action Comics Weekly job went over really well and led to the Prestige format book 'Love after Death' It was with this job I was fully restored as an artist and knew to always trust myself. The only thing I requested was I asked to ink my own work and DC encouraged my decision. I was given a generous deadline and I spent the next year in absolute bliss. Deadman and I became best friends! I was fortunate in having a great script from Mike Baron and simply brilliant colours by Les Dorshied. I was surrounded by the best in the business, and I was! I was so pleased to be considered good enough to be there. Deadman was my 'Martin Luther' moment of "nailing my manifesto" to the gates of comics. This was who I was and would remain. I felt restored as an artist and as a person by Deadman and that rush has never left me.

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Paul: Can I ask about your time illustrating some incredible issues of Sandman please? How did The Seasons of The Mists come about? Also, can you say anything about Neil Gaiman's scripts? Were they detailed? Did you have any story input?

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Kelley: My times on Sandman came about directly from the great reaction I got from Deadman. Karen Berger then asked me to see her at SDCC in 89. We spoke and she said she'd like me to do some stuff for her and I drew a fill in Swamp Thing #94 (dream come true)

Kelley: The reaction in the office was really good and that's when Karen asked if I would draw an issue of Sandman. Neil had liked Deadman and the fill in of Swamp Thing so thought I'd be perfect for the Calliope issue(#17). He really dug the end papers for Deadman. Love after Death as he thought, carried a lot of atmosphere that set a great tone for the books. The Calliope issue was a horror story and he thought my sensibilities would be perfect.That issue was a big success. I was phoned a few weeks later by Karen and asked if I wanted issue 18.

 

Kelley:  'The Dream of a Thousand Cats' had been passed over by 4 artists, and the deadline was becoming an issue when they asked me out of desperation. No one wanted to draw an issue full of cats I was told, and yet that was too great a challenge to pass by. I was asked if I could draw cats? After that I said yes to the assignment. I really loved the idea of taking this book on. I spent the weekend filling a sketch book full of drawings of my cat Knuckles and by Monday when the script came I was ready to go. The story was so good, that it literally drew itself. I mean the pages just flowed, and to this day I feel its one of the best comics every written Sandman notwithstanding. Any one could have drawn that as it was pure emotion and beauty. It went to places comics rarely go.

 

Kelley: When Neil saw the art from the first few pages he phoned and told me about Seasons of Mist and sent me his outline. He felt that after seeing the art for issue18 I could draw anything and my range was what was necessary for the epic he was planning. He wanted 'Mist' to be the 'Sergeant Pepper' of the run. That run was the foundation of all before it and all after it. After that we spoke a lot about what was to happen and what would work or not. It was more collaborative from Neil's part out of necessity to pick up time but also I was a sounding board for him.

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Paul: Do you think you influenced the story?

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Kelley: He essentially had it all planned out and really just had to stitch all these big scenes together as he had been thinking about it a long time. I always believed the greatness of it was Neil's ability to be so grand and magnificent at times, and then see the small and almost insignificant yet ultimately important things that drove the story. I do remember telling him it had the sweep of Tolkien to me. He was immensely pleased as we are both lovers of Tolkien. I had some  influence on Nuala and some with Hell. Mazikeen was something we spoke a lot about as with Satan.

Kelley: Originally there was to be a huge battle when Sandman invades hell and Neil wondered how Sandman could do that considering the almost endless army of damned souls and demons he'd face. I remember saying Sandman could bring all the nightmares of people and animals ever dreamed to be his army and Neil loved that. But when the script came he went another and better direction. He created an empty silent Hell, which was much more frightening and raised the level of tension dramatically. Neil handled Satan as Milton would instead of a villain but as a doomed tragic figure and it worked so much better than a big fight scene. It opened doors to new stories and possibilities and let the audience have a different perspective to these gods and monsters. Neil's brilliance is changing up what you think will happen and giving you something you never imagined.

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Paul: Netflix recently produced a pretty Faithful adaptation of Sandman? Did you enjoy it?

Kelley: Yes very much. Adaptions can never be as powerful as the original source material, that's impossible, but what they must do is contain the atmosphere and sincerity of the original work. Jackson did it with LOTR and Sandman had the same result. The mystery and scope of what Neil did is all over this. It was Sandman and it worked. If I'd never read an issue of Sandman this series would have made me hunt down the comics.

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Paul: Interestingly Netflix released The Dream of a 1000 cats episode a week later after the initial release. I am guessing you knew that would happen?

KelIey: I was informed while the episode was in production. Neil told me about it and said the production team felt it was one of the things they really wanted to get right as it was for many their favorite issues (Cats always strike a good chord!) I wondered how they would do it as I feared it would look like a cat food commercial and Neil said no they are animating it. I was knocked out by that solution and a day or so later I was shown some work in progress and was blown away. Neil explained that my two issues were being put together as a extra episode. In comics speak he likened it to something like an old Marvel Comics annual for the tv series. I loved that approach as the issues were stand alone in the run and the series maintained that.

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Paul: So I am safe in saying you were pleased when you saw the finished episode?

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Kelley: I was in awe. It had the tone and heart of the book. It is as heartbreaking and as original in the telling as well. I was so proud and I told Neil that if anyone would have predicted this back some thirty plus years ago I'd think them nuts. My old Knuckles is a star.

Paul: One last question on that episode. It has a pretty stunning celebrity voice cast. Did those voices feel right to you? Feel free to name drop if you'd like,  but it was a decent cast I hope you'd agree?

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Kelley: Yes I loved the voices! In fact when animation is done well you believe the characters are really talking without realising they are people doing it!  At least I do cause I'm still a big gullible kid.

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Paul: May I ask please, do you know anything about season 2 of the Netflix Sandman series?

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Kelley: Just that its Seasons of Mist and Neil is writing it. He says it will be tremendous. Nothing else can I say!

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Paul: So you can confirm it will involve the Season Of The Mist storyline?

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Kelley: Neil is adapting the books as they came out so I think that's the plan as of now. Anything can change as we have recently seen in TV and movies.

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Paul: Are you happy to see Seasons of The Mist adapted onto the screen? Surely that is reason to be excited?

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Kelley: I think that Seasons was one of the great moments in comics and will easily be that for TV. I was lucky to be there all those years ago.That alone is pretty exciting so yes I am pretty happy that its coming!

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Paul: You are known quite rightly as having a very unique way of approaching Batman. Who first approached you to try Batman?

 

Kelley: Archie Goodwin. He loved my Deadman and he said he saw potential for an interesting take on Batman. So he asked for a pin up that eventually got promoted to be a cover for Detective comics 651.

Paul: Being from the UK I am a huge 2000AD fan. Alan Grant wrote many incredible stories for Batman. Did you have much opportunity to meet him while working with him?

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Kelley: Sadly no and we were very good friends. We talked about it and planned to but circumstance always prevented it. One of my great regrets in my comics career.

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Paul: Alan Grant was a writer that is greatly missed. Did you have any opportunity to meet Norm Breyfogle and if so can you share any words about the excellent artist? 

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Kelley: Yes I met Norm when Red Rain came out in San Diego. We became friends (as much as you could with Norm!) He was a deep guy with lots of opinions and ideas. We kept in touch and spoke up until his tragic death. I was happy to have helped get a statue made of his Batman for DC and his Batman run get reprinted. I miss him.

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Paul: Your Batman is rather special. The way you do the ears? It has an almost old school gothic feel and approach to it. How do you think about Batman? As an artist? For that matter how do you feel about Batman as a "person?"

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Kelley: When I came to Batman he was in the large long shadow of the genius of Neal Adams' depiction and I knew that I could not survive that comparison if I went that realistic way. I did what I did on Deadman and simply tried to make him a creature of fear. I love old Film Noir movies and classic horror as well. So I blended that for Batman. I thought that Batman wouldn't be too frightening to his quarry if we saw him in a fully lit situation. I wanted it in deep shadow. When that decision was made I started trying to figure out how to do that. My discovery was that his silhouette was what had to work
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Paul: It absolutely worked.

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Kelley: I figured out too that his cape and cowl had to be more than a costume. It also had to be like a weapon. He had to appear terrifying to the regular criminals and people of Gotham. Only the crazies really fight back. Batman coming out of the shadows brings those shadows with him. No sane person continues a life of crime if it draws his attention. This explains who inhabits Arkham Asylum. I always figured the citizens of Gotham thought Batman was not only a criminal but the worst criminal in Gotham as they light the Bat-Signal to warn everyone he's loose. 

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Paul: That is a fun take on the character certainly, and not entirely wrong at all.

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Kelley: Thus his silhouette and his shape should never be fully seen. It also means as an artist I need as much as I can to emphasise that. The ears and the cape must be highlighted to bring that fear to an adversary.

Paul: Doug Moench has been a writer you have worked with a lot I believe. Can you say anything about his scripts and the wonderful work you did together?

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Kelley: Sure.

Paul: It is my birthday today. So I am going to pop to my local corner shop for wine. PLEASE continue with your answer. I have many more FUN questions to ask you.

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Kelley: Have a great time!!! I’d have a dry French Burgundy if I were you!!

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NOTE: A bout an hour later)

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Paul: Back now..... I like Californian Rose.

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Kelley: I have friends who make that! They have wineries! Those things are everywhere around here.
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Paul: That's very cool, but back to comics if we can. Can you talk about Doug Moench please? 

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Kelley: Doug got a hold of me after he saw Deadman. Then he found me from the late Malcolm Jones whom I was working with then. Doug called me and said he wanted to send me a treatment for Red Rain. His idea was spectacular and truly gothic. I loved the treatment when I thought I wouldn't, and then I knew I had to draw it. Doug never said how to visualize it but the story he wrote was completely visual. It was like a movie as he wrote it. I still believe that it works because of how original it is. Doug Moench is one of the best comic book writers ever and I was stunned he wanted to work with me. To this day I'm still stunned by that as I grew up as such a fan of his work.

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Paul: you must agree that is a solid body of work with a great writer?

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Kelley: I would say my run on Batman is what I will most likely be remembered for. My three years drawing Batman was a great period for me and Doug wrote the most incredibly original run in Batman's history. One shots and two parters and it was pure Batman. I have nothing but great memories of that time though it was hectic getting an issue out every month. I believe those stories stand the test of time and its really because Doug made Batman as close to perfect as he ever was.
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Paul: A few years ago in London it was my honour to share some time with Berni Wrightson. I managed to buy the gentleman a drink. Would it be fair to say (based on your art and career) you may also be a big fan of his art?

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Kelley: Yes and I was lucky to be his friend. He made me want to be a comic book artist

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Paul: There was a project named Frankenstein Alive I suspect you finished upon his behalf. Is that true?

Kelley: Yes. He reached a point that he was unable to finish it and asked if I would. I was never so honoured in my life. I wish to this day he never had to ask me and that he was still here. I was stunned how great his work in the preliminary stages was, and how well thought out it was. I still believe he was the greatest artist to ever do comic books. He passed a few months later. I had accepted his request while he was alive and he was happy I said yes as he wanted Frankenstein Alive alive to be completed.

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Paul: I assume that was an incredible compliment from an artist of his calibre? And also a huge challenge perhaps?

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Kelley: Both. I can only say that it was the biggest honour I ever received, and the challenge became a mission to make his final dream come true.

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Paul: Computers have changed the way many artists create their art in the last twenty years. Can you say if technology has had much impact upon your artist process?

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Kelley: Not really.Other than scanning it instead of packing it up and sending it. I still like the results best on paper and the happy and necessary accidents that always happen. I still prefer drawing on paper because I still like the intensity of the experience.

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Paul: I ask this because other artists occasionally read these interviews. Would you describe yourself as a "fast" artist? For Example how long might a Batman cover take you?
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Kelley: I can do one in a day. Once I have the idea which is the real work in drawing for me the rest is just fun. I don't really feel the time when I'm in the zone as it were.

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Paul: Would it be fair to guess art equipment is your main expense as a professional artist?

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Kelley:  I don't spend much. Other than some really excellent brushes, and I use number 2 pencils and erasers like for grade school.

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Paul: I hope you would agree COVID rather ruined the entire comic convention circuit? Yet I ask you simply this. Do you enjoy comic conventions? Do you like meeting your fans? Is it a fun part of your job?

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Kelley: When I have time I love them. One day I hope someone in Britain invites me over! I'm doing one in Sicily this year and maybe I can fit a few in. Schedules and deadlines are the main reason I can't go to as many as I would like. Meeting fellow fans is a great pleasure.

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Paul: I am sure an invite to Britain's south coast could be arranged.... At any comic conventions have you ever felt starstruck? Have you ever met your own artistic heroes?

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Kelley: With Kirby and John Byrne I was a dear in the headlights. I stuttered at Neal Adams as I was telling him my love of his stuff. Wrightson I babbled too as well. This is because I really see myself as a fan first. That’s the best part, I get to meet my heroes.

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Paul: So please I ask politely. Every fan has at least one or two cool convention stories to tell. Can you share any?
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Kelley: I got to witness the first meeting of both Steve Englehart and Marshall Rogers after their incredible run on Detective Comics. They had never met before. I was such a fan of that run and still think it’s some of the best Batman stories ever.

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Paul: That is a GREAT story, but I feel you have a funnier story you want to tell.

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Kelley: Well some I can’t! One with Alan I’ll tell you if I ever meet you, and another about me that happened in front of a bunch of other pros.

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Paul: I need a story fit for publication if possible. Anything else readers can guess at.

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Kelley: I had a fan stand in line for some time and when they finally got to see me they proceeded to tell me they weren’t a fan of my stuff. When I asked who they did like, they said, ”Kelley Jones.” I said I hate that guys stuff! The fellow smiled and left me all wondering who they were talking about.

Was there another artist at the time called Kelly Jones?
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Paul: Was there?

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Kelley: Nope. Never did figure it out but I was impressed at someone standing in line and respectfully saying they didn’t like someone’s stuff but wondered how you get in the wrong line. He shook my hand and I regret not asking who they didn’t like!

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Paul: I have a final question please if that is okay? Simply, what does the future hold for Kelley Jones? Is there anything that needs promoting?

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Kelley: I have a major project soon to be announced with Matt Wagner. I’m doing covers for Detective Comics and have a Harley Quinn story coming out soon as well.
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Paul: Kelley I thank you very much for all you time.